The New South Institute’s Governing Tomorrow podcast continues to examine the practical choices that shape a capable and ethical public service in South Africa. In the fourth episode of the series, host Yoliswa Makhasi speaks with Public Protector Advocate Kholeka Gcaleka about why public service reform is not simply policy on paper—particularly in a context where service delivery, accountability, and public trust are under sustained pressure.

Gcaleka locates reform first in the fundamentals of administration: clarifying responsibility, strengthening professionalism, and ensuring that the authority required to run departments sits where accountability is expected to sit. The conversation returns repeatedly to the political–administrative interface, including the question of devolving administrative powers to heads of department and the rationale for limiting senior public servants from holding political office. In Gcaleka’s view, these are not abstract debates. They affect the daily functioning of departments, the credibility of decision-making, and the state’s ability to deliver consistently.

From the Public Protector’s vantage point, the episode also explores how oversight institutions can contribute to reform through a stronger focus on systemic problems rather than only individual cases. Gcaleka describes the Public Protector’s “developmental mandate” as using evidence gathered through investigations and complaints to identify patterns, support better planning, and encourage preventative approaches—including through collaboration with other accountability bodies where mandates intersect.

A further thread in the discussion concerns ethics and integrity as practical governance issues. Gcaleka argues that ethical standards should not be treated as an afterthought or reduced to compliance alone, and she links professionalisation to a clearer, merit-based approach to recruitment, competence, and leadership—both in administration and, importantly, in politics. Her remarks on the everyday realities faced by junior public servants—who are often the public-facing point of service delivery—underscore the importance of institutional culture, support, and clear rules that protect professionalism.

Episode 4 builds on earlier conversations in the series, including Episode 1 on youth in the public service (Yoliswa Makhasi with Malaika Mahlatsi), Episode 2 for Women’s Day (with Pam Yako), and Episode 3 on reforming the public service (with Ivor Chipkin).

Watch the full conversation on YouTube, and subscribe to Governing Tomorrow for new episodes as they are released.